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The Gods of Liberalism Revisited


The lie hasn't changed, and we still fall for it as easily as ever.  But how can we escape the snare?



Sunday, August 03, 2008

Fire Reported At Fred Phelps' Church

Fire Reported At Fred Phelps' Church
Topeka Congregation Known For Funeral Protests

POSTED: 9:14 am CDT August 3, 2008
UPDATED: 9:21 am CDT August 3, 2008

TOPEKA, Kan. -- The Topeka Fire Department is investigating a small fire outside of a church whose members protest at soldiers' funerals.

The Topeka Capital-Journal reports that a fence and garage at Westboro Baptist Church became engulfed in flames early Saturday. The fire did not spread to the church building.

Topeka Fire Marshal Greg Bailey said the cause of the fire has not been determined.

However, a spokeswoman for the church, Shirley Phelps-Roper, believes it was deliberately set.

Read the rest of the report at KMBC.

Fred Phelps believes that soldiers die as punishment for tolerance of homosexuals. Can we then assume that the fire was set as God's punishment, too? Perhaps the restoration efforts should be a picket scene liken the funeral ones put on by Phelps and clan.


Bob Ellis said...

Good point, Carrie.

I wouldn't want to see violence or property damage done, not even to these hateful people. But the pickets you mentioned would almost seem to be poetic justice.

Carrie K. Hutchens said...

I agree! No violence or property damage. Just good ole poetic justice come home protest style.

Anonymous said...

If there's one good thing to be said about the Westboro Baptist Church, it's that at least they're consistent and honest in their hatred. You don't hear them say, "We hate everything that homosexuals do and will not rest until they are defeated, but we love them as people." No, their hatred goes right to the core, and they make no apologies. If only all anti-gay Christians could be so forthright.

And Carrie, this cult does a lot more than just disrespect the troops. They preach hate -- not mere disapproval or political opposition, but pure hate -- against homosexuals, and indoctrinate their kids to believe the same thing. I notice you ignored this aspect, so I'm eager to get your opinion. Surely you don't think the only thing worth mentioning is how Phelps slanders the military, right?

Carrie K. Hutchens said...

Alex, I didn't ignore anything! I made a blog post about the article at KMBC and my response to it.

Bob Ellis said...

Very astute of you, Alex, that you were able to distinguish that the Westboro freaks don't merely oppose homosexual behavior, but actually hate homosexuals outright. That recognition should have enabled you to finally understand what real homophobia and hatred look like--and that what you see from the vast majority of Christians simply doesn't fit that bill.

Apparently you lack the intellectual honesty to go that far; I suppose there's more mileage to be gained from demonizing Christians so as to better "justify" an immoral and unhealthy behavior.

Anonymous said...

Do you sarcastically condescend to everyone who comments here, or just me? How very Christ-like of you.

Carrie K. Hutchens said...

Alex, anyone, who reads the Dakota Voice, should be fully aware of what our feelings are towards Phelps and the likes of him and his faithful followers. There were articles about his poison long before you arrived on the scene. However, you seem to have ignored that fact and act like everyone is simply ignoring the hardships of homosexuals. Well, I'd like to ask you a question or two...

What makes the rape of a homosexual any worse than the rape of a woman or man who doesn't happen to be? Nothing! Rape is rape and nothing makes it right!

What makes a vicious beating of a homosexual any worse than the vicious beating of a non-homosexual? Nothing! A vicious beating is a vicious beating no matter who the victim is!

So, what's your point? Are you trying to say that a crime intensifies when the victim is a homosexual? I'd like to hear your justification on that one, if it is true.

I write about wrongs done unto "people". I don't look to their skin color, religion or sexual orientation before deciding to write about the wrongs of what took place -- but you are asking me to. You are asking me to make special effort to write about bad things done unto homosexuals, as though it is ONLY done unto them, which is simply not true.

What is true is that there are people out there that target homosexuals, just like there are people out there that target blondes, women, children and so forth. And, you know what? I'm betting there are homosexuals that were targeted for reasons other than them being a homosexual. Might even be that the person was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Alex, as long as you see the world as your enemy out to get you, or feel that no one is doing enough for your particular group of interest -- you are going to be seeing a distorted picture and finding yourself traveling up a very steep hill.

Bob Ellis said...

Pretty much just you.

Actually, I just try to tell it like it is. If you read the Bible, you'll notice that Jesus was pretty blunt, and even called folks snakes, hypocrites, whitewashed tombs, etc. when the situation warranted it.

If I saw any evidence you were interested in having a rational discussion, I'd respond differently But several weeks of sarcastic, mocking, anti-Christian comments, you've proven you have no interest in that.

Anonymous said...

I concur, Mr. Ellis. Jesus also told us "Cast not pearls before swine."

Anonymous said...


Pretty much just me? So you're an "eye for an eye" Christian, rather than a "turn the other cheek" one? Funny, because I thought the GREATEST commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself.

You're right that Jesus was pretty blunt. But he never went out of his way to be a pompous jackass.

And you say that I have no interest in rational discussion because I make sarcastic, mocking, anti-Christian comments, yet everything you write is full of your own sarcastic, mocking, anti-everything-that's-not-Christian comments. Or am I to believe that phrases like "useful idiots" are not meant sarcastically?

You people are ridiculous.

Anonymous said...


"You are asking me to make special effort to write about bad things done unto homosexuals, as though it is ONLY done unto them, which is simply not true."

On the other hand, you and certain other writers on this site make special effort to write about bad things done BY homosexuals, as if everything they do is a nuisance and a detriment to society. Look at the articles tagged under "homosexuality." Almost every one is about what's wrong with homosexuals.

I'm not asking you to give special attention to gay hate crimes or anything like that; write about whatever you want. All I wanted was your opinion, so there's no need to get dramatic and act like I'm telling you how to do your job.

Carrie K. Hutchens said...

"On the other hand, you and certain other writers on this site make special effort to write about bad things done BY homosexuals, as if everything they do is a nuisance and a detriment to society."

You better do some re-reading, Alex. I made no such effort. (I often write about activists and some happen to be homosexuals.) And... yes... you have been trying to tell me how to do my job.

Anonymous said...

Where would we Christians be without the Christian-haters telling us what is and what is not "Christian?"

Anonymous said...

Being a former Christian looking from the outside in helps.

Bob Ellis said...

I'm a "Paul" or "Apollos" type Christian who isn't going to roll over and sing kumbaya "we can all agree to disagree."

You seem to think "Christian" = "pushover."

Or "Christian" = "Someone who's too spineless to confront error."

Really, the equation is more like "Someone who's too spineless to confront error" = "Poor excuse for a Christian."

Or "Someone who's too spineless to confront error" = "Christian not grounded in truth well enough to confront error."

I try to give an answer in context with how an issue was raised. If you raise an issue in a thoughtful, reasoned manner and I'll respond in a thoughtful, reasoned answer. If you raise an issue in a manner hostile to truth, good and bereft of reason, I'll provide a direct, blunt answer because you've indicated you aren't open to reasoned discussion. I'm just trying to do my best to "answer a fool according to his folly."

Do you know what the term "useful idiot" means? It has a direct and historic meaning. Look it up and you'll find out why I use it in the context I do.

Anonymous said...

Actually Bob, when I was a Christian I tried to live by the fruits of the spirit. You should revisit them, because Paul did not include "sarcasm" and "condescension" in his list of Christian virtues.

It always amazes me that when Christians like you are put to the test, their true colors finally come out, and how defensive they get when someone calls them out on their un-Christian behavior, as if they are somehow above reproach. It never gets old.

Bob Ellis said...

So you're saying that people like Paul himself, Stephen, and even Jesus didn't live by the fruits of the spirit, because they weren't afraid to call a spade a spade?

See why I'm not responding to many of your comments anymore? You refuse to even flirt with being rational and just want to bash Christianity.

Don't be surprised when I don't bother anymore.

Anonymous said...

When Paul, Stephen, and Jesus confronted people's errors, they at least had the decency to do it without mockery. Please stop thinking you're on par with the son of God. It's embarrassing.

Again, I have to chuckle when a Christian accuses someone else of not being rational. There's a word for people who believe God talks to them: schizophrenic.

You can stop bothering with my comments now if you like. It's a shame though, considering how few other people post on your site. At least I kept things interesting for a while. I think I've had enough fun with you guys, and I'll let Carrie have her thread back. You know how good we sodomites are at hijacking things! ;-)

Bob Ellis said...

You might want to check again what the men of God in the Bible said and did, including the Master himself. You'll find some delightful mockery where it's called for.

I do appreciate that you, unlike many liberals, have at least had the courage to post some comments. Most are afraid they'll find themselves wiping the floor with their lack of logic and reason, but you've demonstrated that you're not afraid of that fate.

Still, it gets old when no reason is involved, so I'll bid you farewell in this discussion.

Anonymous said...

ooh Alex, I believe your next response should be, "Touche". Christians aren't perfect sweetheart and we aren't without human emotions. It is not up to you to judge what is "Christian like" or "Un Christian like" behavior. It is ever so common for non Christians to criticize a Christian's every word using that whole, "that's not christian like of you" response. It's so juvenile. God himself knows that no human being is perfect and anyone with a pulse is going to become angered, offended, and sharp tongued when their every word is attacked and analyzed for proof of "non Christian like" behavior. When you specifically or even generally attack Christians, of course they are going to fight back. Noone ever said we should take criticism lying down. And how exactly does Sarcasm hurt anyone? Especially when it's clearly provoked sarcasm. I think you should take a lot of your own advice instead of spending your time being right up there in the ranks of Fred Phelps by spreading hate toward Christians as if we are all just bad eggs. You should also know when to admit defeat and spare everyone of further demonstrations of your ignorance. Oh no! I suppose, by your standards anyway, that I have demonstrated "UnChristian like" behavior. What ever shall I do?
Ah, Sarcasm, a beautiful thing.

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