Some seem to think that "any" connection between church and state is dangerous, and a threat to their personal beliefs, wants, desires, well-being and rights. Heaven forbid that religion touch their lives in any form or fashion. Wouldn't want to cause them harm, now would we? So I suppose we need to remove some laws from the books. Laws that originated from a religious concept. There are three that immediately come to mind.
"Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
Maybe we should remove laws that make it wrong to lie about people or situations. Let's just throw slander and libel laws right out. Shouldn't matter to anyone if someone's lies cause them to lose their business, home, salary, reputation or family, now should it? And while we are at it, let's dump the "making a false report" laws, as well as perjury. No one should mind losing a court case or having to go to jail or prison, as long as we get rid of those pesky and wrongfully religiously influenced laws.
"Thou shall not steal."
Oh yeah... let's get rid of those, too. Let's remove all laws with regard to helping ourselves to other people's things. I'm sure those that don't like religion in their lives wouldn't mind sharing their wealth with whomever would like to help themselves. Hey, why work when one can just go take it from someone else who has?
"Thou shall not kill."
Oh well... we can't have that one on the books in any fashion, now can we? Gotta be free to kill off those people that don't want to give up their property we are stealing or those who just happen to get in our way, especially on a bad hair day.
REALITY:
To remove "all" influences of religion from "all" aspects of our life and government, would mean that these laws would need to be removed from the books as well. Otherwise, there is no true conviction or purpose in any of this. Instead, it is merely a matter of separation within the bounds each feels comfortable -- not truly and completely separation of church and state as an absolute. So if it is a decision between absolute separation of church and state (which includes influence) and having the above laws removed from the books -- where will you stand?
It's something to think about!
5 comments:
Happy 4th of July, Bob!
Your interpretation of the arguments for separation of church and state is, in my opinion, far too simplistic. I don't know of anyone who wants to go so far as to remove all parts of our society that have been influenced by religion.
Could there be people out there who think that? Sure, but I'd put them in the same catagory as people who believe space aliens walk among us.
I mean, any student of history knows that religion in general, and Christianity in particular, has had a huge impact on the course of human history. It has influenced everything from our law to our social interaction and on and on. So trying to get rid of all that would just be silly.
There are a lot of rational reasons to support this separation. My concern is state involvment in religion. I'm a Lutheran and I would have a big problem if the state tried to enforce, say, a Catholic belief (for example).
Also, I'm curious about what denomination people have in mind when they say they want the United States to be a "Christian nation." Do they mean Catholic? Lutheran? Methodist? Baptist? And that also ignores the millions of Americans who are not Christians such as Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Scientologists, Agnostics, Athiests, etc.
I support the separation of church and state because it's there to protect the beliefs of the American people as much as it's there to protect the state.
When people say the US has traditionally been a Christian nation and that we want it to remain one, we aren't saying we want an official state religion. We're referring to what has always traditionally been: that our country retain its Christian flavor and roots AMONG THE PEOPLE, without restriction on the exercise and influence of Christianity.
Our country was far more Christian in the past, yet we had nothing like a theocracy. Calls against "theocracy" and for a perverted form of "separation of church and state" that refuses to acknowledge the influence of Christianity on our civilization are not genuine from an informed position. They attempt to change what never was into something that should never be.
People often make the mistake of thinking that for America to be Christian, that distinction must be an official one. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
For more on what I meant when I said that America is a Christian nation without being "officially" christian, check out this post: http://dakotavoice.blogspot.com/2007/07/source-of-americas-greatness.html. Or better yet, Get Alexis de Tocqueville's "Democracy in America." You can find the entire text online in several places, or get a paperback copy of it very cheap.
Attention: Moron ... What makes you think "Don't kill, steal, or lie" has anything to do with Christianity? These are common sense values that ALL world religions as well as atheists acknowledge. www.GodlessBastard.com
Attention...er, I won't go there. Anonymous 2:49, I don't believe Carrie mentioned Christianity anywhere in this post.
Even if she had, that doesn't invalidate her point, since Christian principles form the foundation of American civilization.
The question for atheist, though, is: "From where do you derive these values?" After all, if humans are just highly evolved animals, what does it matter if you kill or steal from them? Would it matter if you lied to your dog? Would you face eternal judgement for killing a cow? For the atheist, it should be quite "natural" for the stronger to win out over the weaker, especially when there is no transcendent standard to appeal to.
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