From the Rapid City Journal today:The group [Interfaith Task Force Against the Death Penalty] said it also might use the state's new abortion ban to try to persuade legislators to eliminate the death penalty.
Yeah, that's about like liberals, to invoke some sort of juvenile moral equivalency between an innocent child who has done nothing wrong, and someone who willfully took the life of another human being. (Incidentally, Elijah Page's crime was especially heinous, involving the torture of someone who might otherwise have been called his friend).
What they don't realize (even some in the pro-life crowd don't realize this) is that the death penalty is completely pro-life. It makes a statement that we value life so much that the wrongful taking of it demands the highest penalty possible.
The death penalty serves many purposes: (1) it prevents the murderer from harming anyone in society ever again--including prison guards or other inmates, (2) it saves law-abiding taxpayers from providing food, shelter and medical care for someone who does not value life or law, (3) it provides justice for violating the highest of our laws, (4) it provides closure for the loved ones of the victim who have been robbed of their loved one, (5) it provides a deterrent (if administered quickly and consistently--which admittedly it's not in this pansy justice system), and (6) it makes the statement that we place sacred value on life, and will punish the wrongful taking of life with the ultimate penalty. There are probably others too, but this should cover the major ones.
For those who try to argue against the death penalty from a Christian perspective, I would refer them to Genesis 9:6: "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man." This edict was issued by God to Noah and his family as they stepped off the ark after the Flood to begin the human race anew. It was issued prior to the Law of Moses, so it cannot be said that Jesus did away with it when he did away with the Law--in fact, Jesus did not come to do away with the moral law, but to fulfill it. Jesus also didn't do away with it in the incident involving the woman caught in adultery. This incident was an illustration of the hypocrisy and duplicity of the Pharisees who wanted to do Jesus in, not a statement on the death penalty. The apostle Paul also says in Romans 13 that "[government] does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."
Let's hope South Dakota (it's judicial system and it's people) have the guts to do what is right and take a stand for life in the execution of Elijah Page. A society that doesn't have the moral fortitude to make the hard decisions doesn't deserve safety and security--and be sure, it won't have them.
Monday, March 20, 2006
Death penalty foes speak out
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9 comments:
"Presently, nearly every major religious denomination in the United States formally opposes the death penalty at the denominational level. The (Interfaith Task Force Against the Death Penalty) works to increase grassroots questioning of the death penalty by familiarizing people with the anti-death penalty positions of their own churches."
I find your characterization of these church-going folk and their grassroots work on behalf of the mission of their own churches to be, at best, disingenuous. You deliberately ignore the anti-death penalty stance of all the major churches – not to mention glossing over the many, many church teachings that refute your stance. (Actually calling the death penalty "completely pro-life"? Wow.)
I respect your right to believe in the death penalty and even that The Lord condones it, but at least acknowledge that there are faithful out there who legitimately (and biblically) see the taking of life, born or unborn, as wrong.
Instead, your first salvo is to brand these believers as "liberals" (whom you've repeatedly labeled anti-Christian.) Why are they automatically liberal? Just because they disagree with you? That's poor critical thinking.
In Him
bassettlew@yahoo.com
You said the death penalty is "soft on criminals and soft on evil, which is a liberal characteristic."
Well then so is "love your enemies, do good to those who would spitefully use you."
And lets not forget "judge not, lest ye be judged."
Or are we now throwing compassion, forgiveness and the promise of salvation out for anyone that doesn't meet our own personal test of godliness?
When Jesus said "let he among you without sin cast the first stone" he made all sins equal. Yours, mine, the remorseless killer on death row. We're all sinners of equal shame.
It's easy to fall into the trap of seeing yourself as the faithful, prayerful, law-abiding taxpayer; someone who would never, never commit a heinous crime such as Mr. Page. It's easy to believe that his sins are far, far worse than yours. But you need to look deeper, my friend. Because standing there with that rock in your hand, you're just another Pharisee.
"You can safely assume you’ve made God over in your own image when it turns out he hates all the same people you do." – Anne Lamott
Anonymous #2 is as predictable as they come.
Christ's admonition to love our enemies is exactly what we should do as people. However, this admonition does nothing whatsoever to negate the God-given responsibility of government to punish wrongdoers (in case you missed it the first time, check out Romans 13 that I mentioned in the post). It also doesn't negate God's edict to humanity in Genesis 9:6 (go back and check that one, too). There's a big difference between how we are to carry out our interpersonal relationships and the responsibilities of governments to protect their citizens from those who choose to defy those same conventions of interpersonal relationships.
See, that's something that liberals just aren't mature enough to understand. As I've long said, liberals are just like little children who don't understand that everything is not morally equivalent to everything else.
And that tired old "judge not lest ye be judged;" oh, that's a hoot. That's the favorite thing libs like to roll out when they want to excuse moral failure. How about "By their fruits you will know them" (Matt. 7:16)? God tells us we can't judge someone from a position of innocence (we are all sinners, myself included), nor can we judge whether someone is going to Hell or not), but he didn't call on us to abandon all reason, be willfully stupid, and be unable to determine that if a person's habitual and patterned behavior of moral bankruptcy, then they're probably a bad person.
And while all sins carry enough weight to condemn us before a holy God, not all sins are equal. God demonstrates this in the Old Testament as each transgression of the law carried different penalties; in fact, the Bible lists a few sins that are abhorrent above others in God's eyes. The New Testament also outlines that there are certain sins which may call for excommunication from the church, and even one which cannot be forgiven.
I don't see myself as perfect or sinless. I know I've committed more than enough sins to deserve Hell. But because I've accepted the grace of Christ, I don't have to suffer the penalty (Hell) I deserve. In fact, if Mr. Page has accepted Christ's gift of grace, he can enter Heaven, too, despite his murder. But he still has to pay the earthly penalty for his crime--a penalty which God outlined way back in Genesis and has never rescinded.
Don't twist God's love and grace into a license to sin, or to excuse sin. I don't think He likes that very much.
Bless you, dear man, but I think your detractor here has a point. You're confusing judgement with discernment.
The Lord calls on us to discern right from wrong (or, if you like, good from evil) for ourselves. And to be ever watchful that we are keeping our feet to the path. But not to use our individual - and always flawed - understanding of His teaching into a finger to point at or a club to beat up others. That is judgement, and it belongs to God alone.
Anne, you just don't get it; probably because you don't want to get it.
What good is discernment without putting it to use? It does no good to be able to discern wrong unless we are willing to stand against it. Certainly we are to do so for ourselves, but we are also to discern and judge right and wrong within our society, as well. If not, we might as well throw in the towel and invite anarchy.
That passage in Romans 13 (that flies over liberals' heads at mach 3) says "For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."
How is God's servant (government) supposed to make a judgment about right and wrong--thus punishing the wrongdoer--if it is bound by some pansy liberal interpretation of "judge not yest ye be judged." God's admonition to us not to judge others from a self-righteous position then becomes a license for wrongdoers to do whatever they please. After all, if people who seek to uphold the law are too neutered to have the guts to see that law is enforced and wrongdoing is punished, they can do whatever they like.
Liberals, think for once. God gave us a brain for a reason. If you go through life "emoting" everything, where you're guided by your feelings, herded toward whatever is easiest and causes the least amount of strife, not only are you allowing evil to flourish, but you're wasting that wonderful reasoning instrument God gave you called a brain.
Next time your home is broken into, let's hear you rail with "judge not lest ye be judged." Next time your wife or daughter is raped, let's hear you shout "judge not lest ye be judged." Next time someone damages or steals your property, let's hear you sing the praises of "judge not lest ye be judged." Next time an Enron or Worldcom rips off a bunch of people, let's hear you extolling "judge not lest ye be judged." Next time a child is kidnapped, molested and murdered, let's hear you cry "judge not lest ye be judged."
I won't be waiting, because I know it'll be different then. Liberals are always very magnanimous when it's someone else's justice being trampled.
Bob,
I'm enjoying this conversation immensely. I mean that sincerely.
And I thought your post to Anne was very good. Very good. (It's so difficult to sound sincere in print. You try to sound earnest and it comes off as sarcastic - but believe me, I really did think the post was good.)
And you had me. I did think while reading your words "well, of course we need to have laws. And you can't pick and choose when it comes to God's edicts. I mean if 'judge not lest ye be judged' counts for the death penalty it has to count for everything, right? Every crime. And that would be intolerable. To never apprehend ANY criminal because 'judge not'!? Unthinkable. The world would descend into anarchy... so maybe Bob's right, maybe I am misinterpreting."
Yep. That's what I thought. For about a minute.
Then I heard that still, small voice in my head whisper "Be still. And know that I am God." And I realized that the earlier voice I'd heard agreeing with you was speaking from fear. Fear of pain, of suffering, of losing my stuff, my loved ones, my life.
And I remembered - who could have reason to fear when they know they are in the hands of God?
So maybe "judge not" means some "pansy liberal" thing like, in our soul. Maybe we need seperate words for "find someone guilty of a crime" (judge) and "judge not" (judge). Perhaps the admonition is about finding someone unworthy in our minds. About deciding that we should be God's "agent of wrath" in thought if not in deed. About thinking about inmates of a maximum security prison as the-scum-of-the-world instead of as brothers and sisters to reach out to.
So then we don't go around thinking that "a person's habitual and patterned behavior of moral bankruptcy (means) they're probably a bad person."
And maybe that judgelessness, that forgiveness (you know, seventy times seven), makes it possible for healing. Makes it possible for miracles.
Or maybe you are right. Maybe "judge not" does have to apply to everything. Every crime. And maybe that's part of God's wonderous and inscrutable plan.
I don't know.
But what I do know is that my passionate, unshakable belief is that we are to strive with all our might to be agents of Christ's love.
"Soooo," you ask, "are you going to go throw the gates open at the all the prisons, open our shores to the terrorists, invite a child molester (whom you've so compassionately forgiven) to share your child's bunk bed?"
No. I couldn't do any of those things. Because I'm afraid. I want criminals to be locked up and our military to be kept strong – and I don't think I could let a child molester into my child's bedroom if Gabriel himself paid me a visit. Because I am afraid.
But I try to open the gates. I struggle with it, because I'm flawed and my faith is imperfect. But I try by taking the tiny little steps I'm capable of... like opposing the death penalty. My fear may keep the criminal locked up, but I can't let it kill him.
You're "not far from the kingdom," last Anonymous.
The thing is, justice isn't the result of fear, but the correct response to righteousness. We don't punish the wrongdoer out of fear (though fear is always a human component), but out of justice for the wrong committed.
Sometimes we mistake the grace that God extended to us through Jesus Christ and come away thinking that there's no punishment for wrongdoing--after all, if we embrace Christ's grace, we don't have to suffer the penalty we deserve.
But someone does. Jesus took our penalty for us, when he was nailed to the cross on our behalf.
That's why God demanded those animal sacrifices for so many years in the Old Testament. Those sacrifices were to teach us that our sin costs something, and it costs life. God might have just forgiven Adam and Eve for their rebellion in the Garden, but then God's righteousness would have meant nothing. God is loving and wants to forgive, but He is also Holy, which means part of his nature is justice. That's why His Son had to come and live a sinless life and then sacrifice it for us--to satisfy God's sense of justice.
That's why God instilled in humanity and human government a sense of justice, a sense that there should be punishment commensurate to the crime committed.
An interesting thing about God's laws that you especially see in the Old Testament is "compensation." The one who has wronged usually has to give back equally or usually several times what they've taken.
Someone who wrongfully takes a life has stolen all the years that person would have otherwise lived. It is only commensurate they give up their remaining years; there's nothing more they can do to right that wrong. They have also stolen all the hopes and dreams that person had for themselves. They've stolen the hopes and dreams of the murdered person's wife/husband/mother/father/son/daughter/best friend. They have robbed that loved one of the enrichment the murdered person would have brought them.
Sitting in jail on the public dime with free food and medical care for several years, or even the rest of their life, doesn't even come close to paying for what they've stolen. It devalues the life they stole from their victim, says that victim wasn't worth enough for our system of laws to demand just recompense.
It's also an affront to God's character of Justice which said in Genesis 9 that all human life is created in His image and that the life of one who wrongfully takes it is demanded in payment.
I am really glad I stumbled on to this site. It has been so interesting to read some of your extremely thought provoking posts. I found my self agreeing with each of you, but am still not sure where I stand when it comes to the death penalty.
I've always been taught that the death penalty is a just form of punishment for those who have committed murder. Having a brother, Elijah Page, who is on death row has made me look deeper into the subject on a more personal level.
I can't help but appreciate some of the posts that defended my brother as still being under the mercy of God. I can tell you, that my brother did grow up hearing the Word of God and attending church. Obviously, something somewhere went terribly wrong...I've spent hours trying to understand how each circumstance my brother faced could have lead to this outcome. Although, he is my half-brother, we lived very different lives. I know without a doubt that childhood and life experiences affected this crime and things could have been very different for him.
If he can truly still be saved please please pray for him or write to him. I know he has stated he doesn't want anyone to write to him about God..but there isn't much time left.
Thanks and God Bless.
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