tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post2885207463995519826..comments2023-10-08T05:44:25.657-06:00Comments on Dakota Voice: How Obama Got Elected: Zombie VotersDakota Voicehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01386070103210525597noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-71632714462784299052008-11-18T20:36:00.000-07:002008-11-18T20:36:00.000-07:00You still have those liberal glasses on, Colin. I ...You still have those liberal glasses on, Colin. I acknowledged that you had certain facts about this story correct, not that I was wrong about anything here. <BR/><BR/>I do understand what ad hominem attacks are..and that complaints about ad hominem attacks are often used to escape moral and factual culpability. <BR/><BR/>But we do agree on one thing: I don't think we have anywhere to go from Bob Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10413354616356999953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-71945188860428614772008-11-18T19:34:00.000-07:002008-11-18T19:34:00.000-07:00Priceless. Nate Silver's interview with John Ziegl...Priceless. Nate Silver's interview with John Ziegler, the architect of this poll:<BR/><BR/>http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/interview-with-john-ziegler-on-zogby.htmlBig Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14219902969287029183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-31196995671936074572008-11-18T18:43:00.000-07:002008-11-18T18:43:00.000-07:00"Correct, Colin." That's where you admitted you we..."Correct, Colin." That's where you admitted you were wrong. It's like two ships passing in the night, Bob. If you don't even understand that ad hominem attacks don't further the discussion, I don't know where we could go from here.Big Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14219902969287029183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-32396046098053565152008-11-18T18:29:00.000-07:002008-11-18T18:29:00.000-07:00I don't see that I admitted I was wrong here; ...I don't see that I admitted I was wrong here; perhaps you have your "liberal glasses" on again.<BR/><BR/>Also, what you call "ad hominem attacks," most other people would call "candor." <BR/><BR/>If someone attempts to mislead others, that deserves to be identified, confronted and denounced for the deception it is. When someone makes assumptions based on Bob Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10413354616356999953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-30640235449538169072008-11-18T18:14:00.000-07:002008-11-18T18:14:00.000-07:00I'm not sure how "voters" can be "emotions," but I...I'm not sure how "voters" can be "emotions," but I really do appreciate that you admitted (for the first time in decades, I'd bet) that you were wrong. Dead wrong.<BR/><BR/>I don't call your perception of the facts an "illusion," nor do I think you should either. I know, "I say the truth when I see it, rah, rah...."<BR/><BR/>Calling my beliefs and their basis in fact irrational is downright Big Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14219902969287029183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-79090156638175485782008-11-18T18:01:00.000-07:002008-11-18T18:01:00.000-07:00Correct, Colin. See, you are able to deal with ce...Correct, Colin. See, you are able to deal with certain facts...as long as they appear non-threatening to your illusion.<BR/><BR/>And the fact that Zogby, a reputable polling organization, did them means they were not asked with snide inflections and "unpleasant" results were not covered up. <BR/><BR/>And I'll say it again, <EM>even if this <STRONG>was</STRONG> a push poll</EM> (which it wasn't-Bob Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10413354616356999953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-25216342565160694642008-11-18T17:49:00.000-07:002008-11-18T17:49:00.000-07:00Um, Zogby didn't write or endorse this poll. They ...Um, Zogby didn't write or endorse this poll. They were paid 13K to ask these questions by an LA radio right-winger.Big Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14219902969287029183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-55135909946658844102008-11-18T17:33:00.000-07:002008-11-18T17:33:00.000-07:00Colin, did you watch the video, or just skim it to...Colin, did you watch the video, or just skim it to keep from getting too contaminated by truth?<BR/><BR/>Obama ADMITTED he wants to bankrupt the coal industry. And with the confiscatory costs he plans to put on them, it would no doubt happen. You're a great example of the old saying about leading horses to water.<BR/><BR/>As for convincing Republicans that we've been taken over by morons, no Bob Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10413354616356999953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-74007884982929929182008-11-18T17:26:00.000-07:002008-11-18T17:26:00.000-07:00"Push-polling has to do with intent and manipulati..."Push-polling has to do with intent and manipulation of opinion"=YES<BR/><BR/>"not with the facts of the statements or questions"=NO<BR/><BR/>"Each of these statements were demonstrably true and factual." <BR/><BR/>NO. 1) These are are statements, they are questions. 2) That Obama's plan would likely bankrupt the coal industry is, by its nature, a statement of opinion--not a statement of fact. <Big Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14219902969287029183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-41173958744432027432008-11-18T17:25:00.000-07:002008-11-18T17:25:00.000-07:00anonymous from 10:31, it was the republican party ...anonymous from 10:31, it was the republican party that pushed for civil rights in this country. They passed the civil rights bills, the dems fought them tooth and nail. Look up some history. From right after the Civil War up until the democrat party put the chains back on them with welfare goodies, blacks were always republican. <BR/><BR/>The left were big supporters of Hitler, who disliked Jews,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-1086836220981167502008-11-18T12:40:00.000-07:002008-11-18T12:40:00.000-07:00Yes, Colin, I know what push-polling is, but from ...Yes, Colin, I know what push-polling is, but from your comments I think it's pretty clear that YOU don't know.<BR/><BR/>Push-polling has to do with intent and manipulation of opinion, not with the facts of the statements or questions. And since these questions were asked <EM>after</EM> their votes had already been cast, even if there was an attempt to sway opinion, it would have been pretty Bob Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10413354616356999953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-8735908845079474922008-11-18T12:26:00.000-07:002008-11-18T12:26:00.000-07:00"Even if it was push-polling, that doesn't alter a..."Even if it was push-polling, that doesn't alter a single, solitary truth about it."<BR/><BR/>Yes, it does, Bob, for it means there can be no truth in the poll. Do you know what push polling is?<BR/><BR/>How about I ask McCain voters which candidate called his wife a c*nt in front of reporters?<BR/><BR/>Would that be push-polling? Yes, it would. If McCain voters failed to answer that question "Big Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14219902969287029183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-26179892039390668332008-11-18T12:16:00.000-07:002008-11-18T12:16:00.000-07:00Colin, do you mean the First Amendment principle o...Colin, do you mean the First Amendment principle of freedom of religion? We love that principle at Dakota Voice. <BR/> <BR/>I also don't see a "first comment" (other than this one) from a "Colin" so it's difficult to answer any more specifically.<BR/> <BR/>Yes, I read the same drivel you posted a link to on the Daily Communist earlier today. The post itself is what's nonsense and irrelevant.<Bob Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10413354616356999953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-33299273130036325632008-11-18T08:42:00.000-07:002008-11-18T08:42:00.000-07:00Guess Dakota Voice doesn't operate on First Amendm...Guess Dakota Voice doesn't operate on First Amendment principles. I'd wager my first comment hit a little too close to home. It's SO nice to be right, Bob.<BR/><BR/>Maybe you'll approve this comment. Nate silver does a nice writeup on why this poll is nonsense:<BR/><BR/>http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/zogby-engages-in-apparent-push-polling.htmlBig Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14219902969287029183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-10933378656163132132008-11-18T02:19:00.000-07:002008-11-18T02:19:00.000-07:00Obama had a landslide victory, there's always goin...Obama had a landslide victory, there's always going to be naysayers but the fact is he's won big time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-67391978050067572492008-11-17T23:53:00.000-07:002008-11-17T23:53:00.000-07:00I don't see any indication of this polling on the ...I don't see any indication of this polling on the Zogby website. Do you always repeat undocumented information as factual? <BR/><BR/>And even if it is true (wow, who can afford to commission a Zogby poll, anyway?), it doesn't tell you much. Americans on both sides of the aisle are astonishingly uninformed. However, from my unscientific review of blog comments, I'd say that lefties definitely Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-27880200648648355742008-11-17T23:33:00.000-07:002008-11-17T23:33:00.000-07:00I was raised to believe that the right vote is jud...I was raised to believe that the right vote is judged in retrospect. I assume that when people voted for bush, they believed they had the right vote. It is sad some don't learn from their mistakes. I do commend the Right for their votes for McCain. "Don't vote for who you think will when, vote on principal; though you may vote alone."<BR/><BR/>I would also like to make a point to say that all butAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-5035739857852304032008-11-17T23:11:00.000-07:002008-11-17T23:11:00.000-07:00"Ignorance is the most expensive comodity we curre..."Ignorance is the most expensive comodity we currently have in the US today" Boy doesnt this poll and subsequent video just prove the point. Obama voters voted knowing nothing of what they were voting on or for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-46648118761089696322008-11-17T22:31:00.001-07:002008-11-17T22:31:00.001-07:00the liberals have always been on the better side o...the liberals have always been on the better side of history:<BR/>-it was liberals who wanted equality for all<BR/>-it was German liberals in Berlin that Hitler hated, they didn't support him<BR/>-liberals are the ones who fight for human rights around the world<BR/>-liberals are supporting the green movement<BR/><BR/>Its the conservatives who only want to maintain status quo that need a headcheck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-28658496082539285042008-11-17T22:31:00.000-07:002008-11-17T22:31:00.000-07:00Wow, talk about "mind numbed robots." Great post, ...Wow, talk about "mind numbed robots." Great post, Robert. The spectrum is broad. Talking with college professors, active and retired, I find the same shallow, uninformed state, only they are less inclined to introspection and more defensive. The people in this survey could at least engage the notion that they don't have a clue...still didn't matter though. HaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-42424719707441016042008-11-17T22:28:00.000-07:002008-11-17T22:28:00.000-07:00why not interview some of the immature McCain/Pali...why not interview some of the immature McCain/Palin rally attendees who were booing. This questionaire is more clearly showing the failure of Republicans to convincingly inform voters...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-74109846414538734522008-11-17T21:52:00.000-07:002008-11-17T21:52:00.000-07:00By the way, for more information on the malady of ...By the way, for more information on the malady of liberalism, read <A HREF="http://www.thelandofthefree.net/conservativeopinion/2008/11/17/acclaimed-psychiatrist-liberals-politically-mad/" REL="nofollow">this</A> and <A HREF="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81033" REL="nofollow">this</A> and <A HREF="http://www.redcounty.com/sarasota/2008/11/Bob Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10413354616356999953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-8461464463228485752008-11-17T21:24:00.000-07:002008-11-17T21:24:00.000-07:00I'm sure there are a handful of ignorant voters on...I'm sure there are a handful of ignorant voters on the Right. But I'd be willing to bet the ignoramus' on the Left outnumber those on the right 5-1 if not 10-1. <BR/><BR/>Liberalism is fueled by emotion, not rational thought. Conservatism, while it can float along on emotion, requires logic and reason grounded in facts--which is why it's always at a disadvantage. <BR/><BR/>Liberals like ObamaBob Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10413354616356999953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-42293909072181709552008-11-17T21:16:00.000-07:002008-11-17T21:16:00.000-07:00There are just as many Republicans that couldn't a...There are just as many Republicans that couldn't answer those questions. I am a Democrat in a family of Republicans and I could answer more of 75 percent of those questions while my older sisters could answer 30%. Not to say my sisters are stupid they just didn't get involved. Kind of putting there faith in God and not the facts. I wish this one-sided crap would stop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11556657.post-73590742272080204832008-11-17T20:57:00.000-07:002008-11-17T20:57:00.000-07:00Danielle, the right to vote comes with the respons...Danielle, the right to vote comes with the responsibility to be informed and to make decisions that put America first, above selfish motives. George Washington said as much in his farewell address: <BR/>"Promote then as an object of primary importance, Institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essentialAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com